rfc9945v1.txt   rfc9945.txt 
Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) L. Eggert, Ed. Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) L. Eggert, Ed.
Request for Comments: 9945 Mozilla Request for Comments: 9945 Mozilla
bcp: 245 E. Lear, Ed. BCP: 245 E. Lear, Ed.
Obsoletes: 3683, 3934 Cisco Systems Obsoletes: 3683, 3934 Cisco Systems
Updates: 2418, 9245 February 2026 Updates: 2418, 9245 February 2026
Category: Best Current Practice Category: Best Current Practice
ISSN: 2070-1721 ISSN: 2070-1721
IETF Community Moderation IETF Community Moderation
Abstract Abstract
The IETF community will treat people with kindness and grace, but not The IETF community will treat people with kindness and grace, but not
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3.1. Actions That Are Out of Scope 3.1. Actions That Are Out of Scope
3.2. Unsolicited Bulk Messages 3.2. Unsolicited Bulk Messages
4. Moderation Procedures and Transparency 4. Moderation Procedures and Transparency
4.1. Consistency and Conflict Resolution 4.1. Consistency and Conflict Resolution
4.2. Reinstatement 4.2. Reinstatement
5. Relationship to Other IETF Functions 5. Relationship to Other IETF Functions
5.1. Relation to the Ombudsteam 5.1. Relation to the Ombudsteam
5.2. Relation to the IETF LLC 5.2. Relation to the IETF LLC
6. Security Considerations 6. Security Considerations
7. IANA Considerations 7. IANA Considerations
8. Acknowledgments 8. References
9. References 8.1. Normative References
9.1. Normative References 8.2. Informative References
9.2. Informative References
Appendix A. Motivation Appendix A. Motivation
A.1. Background A.1. Background
A.2. Problems with the Previous Approach A.2. Problems with the Previous Approach
Appendix B. Non-Normative Examples of Disruptive Behavior Appendix B. Non-Normative Examples of Disruptive Behavior
Acknowledgments
Authors' Addresses Authors' Addresses
1. Introduction 1. Introduction
This memo establishes a policy for the moderation of disruptive This memo establishes a policy for the moderation of disruptive
participation across the IETF's various public online contribution participation across the IETF's various public online contribution
channels and discussion fora. It creates a moderator team to develop channels and discussion fora. It creates a moderator team to develop
procedures and to facilitate their consistent application. procedures and to facilitate their consistent application.
This memo obsoletes and updates some prior IETF processes, summarized This memo obsoletes and updates some prior IETF processes, summarized
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This memo makes the following changes to existing processes: This memo makes the following changes to existing processes:
* Obsoletes [RFC3683] as the "posting rights" (PR) action it defines * Obsoletes [RFC3683] as the "posting rights" (PR) action it defines
is replaced by processes defined herein; is replaced by processes defined herein;
* Obsoletes [RFC3934] as it replaces working group moderation * Obsoletes [RFC3934] as it replaces working group moderation
procedures; procedures;
* Obsoletes Section 3 of [RFC9245] and the second paragraph of * Obsoletes Section 3 of [RFC9245] and the second paragraph of
Section 4 of [RFC9245], as the moderator team replaces the IETF Section 4 of [RFC9245], as the IETF moderator team defined in this
discussion list moderation team. document replaces the IETF discussion list moderator team.
* Updates Section 6.1 of [RFC2418], because the moderator team will * Updates Section 6.1 of [RFC2418], because the moderator team will
work together with working group chairs to moderate disruptive work together with working group chairs to moderate disruptive
behavior. behavior.
The processes described in this memo are solely applicable to IETF The processes described in this memo are solely applicable to IETF
activities, and not to other related organizations, such as the activities, and not to other related organizations, such as the
Internet Research Task Force (IRTF), the Internet Architecture Board Internet Research Task Force (IRTF), the Internet Architecture Board
(IAB), the RFC Series Working Group (RSWG), the RFC Series Approval (IAB), the RFC Series Working Group (RSWG), the RFC Series Approval
Board (RSAB), or the Independent RFC Submission Stream, without their Board (RSAB), or the Independent RFC Submission Stream, without their
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list, chat group, or discussion in a collaborative tool such as list, chat group, or discussion in a collaborative tool such as
GitHub or GitLab. For example, working group chairs are GitHub or GitLab. For example, working group chairs are
administrators of all the public fora that their working groups use, administrators of all the public fora that their working groups use,
which typically includes mailing lists and chat groups, but might which typically includes mailing lists and chat groups, but might
also include collaborative tools such as GitHub or GitLab. The also include collaborative tools such as GitHub or GitLab. The
"owners" of non-WG IETF mailing lists are another example of "owners" of non-WG IETF mailing lists are another example of
administrators. administrators.
1.2. General Philosophy 1.2. General Philosophy
This cornerstone of this policy is that individuals are responsible The cornerstone of this policy is that individuals are responsible
for furthering the goals of the IETF as an organization [RFC3935] in for furthering the goals of the IETF as an organization [RFC3935] in
a manner consistent with the policy laid out in [RFC7154]. a manner consistent with the policy laid out in [RFC7154].
Disagreement and diverse points of view within any standards Disagreement and diverse points of view within any standards
organization are to be expected and are even healthy. The IETF is an organization are to be expected and are even healthy. The IETF is an
open standards organization with a discussion-based rough consensus open standards organization with a discussion-based rough consensus
process, a non-normative description of which is in [RFC7282]. process, a non-normative description of which is in [RFC7282].
Engaged, respectful discussion that is within the scope of an IETF Engaged, respectful discussion that is within the scope of an IETF
forum should therefore not be considered disruptive, nor should forum should therefore not be considered disruptive, nor should
someone be considered disruptive solely because they are outside the someone be considered disruptive solely because they are outside the
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disruptive behavior, action must be taken in order to maintain disruptive behavior, action must be taken in order to maintain
decorum of the community. decorum of the community.
The moderation policy goals are as follows: The moderation policy goals are as follows:
* Apply consistent, fair, and timely moderation of communication * Apply consistent, fair, and timely moderation of communication
across all public online IETF participation channels and across all public online IETF participation channels and
participation fora without regard to a participant's role in the participation fora without regard to a participant's role in the
IETF or previous technical contributions; IETF or previous technical contributions;
* Ensure appeals are available to address disagreements about * Ensure that appeals are available to address disagreements about
moderation actions; moderation actions;
* Balance transparency against both privacy of individuals involved * Balance transparency against both privacy of individuals involved
and further disruption to the community; and further disruption to the community;
* Allow moderation decisions to be reconsidered; and * Allow moderation decisions to be reconsidered; and
* Provide the broadest possible latitude to all people doing * Provide the broadest possible latitude to all people doing
moderation, so that they have the flexibility to address a broad moderation, so that they have the flexibility to address a broad
range of individuals and circumstances. range of individuals and circumstances.
Questions about the processes detailed below should be answered Questions about the processes detailed below should be answered with
through the lens of these aims. these goals in mind.
The objective is explicitly *not* punishment, but to maintain an The objective is explicitly *not* punishment, but to maintain an
open, welcoming, non-hostile environment in which all may participate open, welcoming, non-hostile environment in which all may participate
on an equal footing, regardless of their role in the IETF or past on an equal footing, regardless of their role in the IETF or past
technical contributions. technical contributions.
2. IETF Moderator Team 2. IETF Moderator Team
This memo defines a consistent approach to moderating the IETF's This memo defines a consistent approach to moderating the IETF's
various public online fora. A moderator team for the IETF will various public online fora. A moderator team for the IETF will
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The IESG appoints and recalls moderators. The moderator team The IESG appoints and recalls moderators. The moderator team
initially consists of no fewer than five individuals. The moderator initially consists of no fewer than five individuals. The moderator
team may expand or contract based on operational experience. In team may expand or contract based on operational experience. In
selecting members, the IESG will take into account geographic selecting members, the IESG will take into account geographic
coverage, expected and unexpected absences, and team diversity. coverage, expected and unexpected absences, and team diversity.
Because the IESG and IAB are in the appeals chain for moderator team Because the IESG and IAB are in the appeals chain for moderator team
decisions (see Section 4.1), the IESG must not appoint a moderator decisions (see Section 4.1), the IESG must not appoint a moderator
who is serving on the IESG or IAB. Individuals serving on other who is serving on the IESG or IAB. Individuals serving on other
bodies to which the NomCom appoints members, such as the IETF Trust bodies to which the NomCom appoints members, such as the IETF Trust
or the LLC Board, as well as LLC staff and contractors, shall also be or the IETF LLC Board, as well as IETF LLC staff and contractors
excluded from serving on the moderator team. If a moderator assumes shall also be excluded from serving on the moderator team. If a
any such role, they shall step down from the moderator team soon moderator assumes any such role, they shall step down from the
after. moderator team soon after.
2.1.1. Team Diversity 2.1.1. Team Diversity
Due to the global nature of the IETF, the membership of this team Due to the global nature of the IETF, the membership of this team
should reflect a diversity of time zones and other participant should reflect a diversity of time zones and other participant
characteristics that lets it operate effectively around the clock and characteristics that lets it operate effectively around the clock and
throughout the year. Ideally, the moderators should be able to throughout the year. Ideally, the moderators should be able to
respond to issues within a few hours. respond to issues within a few hours.
Team diversity is also important to ensure any participant observing Team diversity also improves the likelihood that any participant
disruptive behavior can identify a moderator they feel comfortable experiencing or observing disruptive behavior can identify a
contacting. moderator they feel comfortable contacting.
2.2. Training 2.2. Training
The IETF is committed to providing and/or funding training for The IETF is committed to providing and/or funding training for
administrators and moderators as necessary. The IESG will negotiate administrators and moderators as necessary. The IESG will negotiate
any required funding or resources with IETF Administration LLC any required funding or resources with IETF Administration LLC
[RFC8711]. [RFC8711].
3. Scope and Responsibilities 3. Scope and Responsibilities
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* *Participants* should always behave in the manner discussed in * *Participants* should always behave in the manner discussed in
Section 1.2. They are also encouraged to report disruptive Section 1.2. They are also encouraged to report disruptive
behavior directed at them or someone else to an administrator of behavior directed at them or someone else to an administrator of
the respective forum *and* the moderators. the respective forum *and* the moderators.
* *Administrators* are primarily responsible for managing their fora * *Administrators* are primarily responsible for managing their fora
in accordance with procedures developed by the moderators and in accordance with procedures developed by the moderators and
approved by the IESG. As such, they shall address reports of approved by the IESG. As such, they shall address reports of
disruptive behavior in a timely fashion, apprising moderators of disruptive behavior in a timely fashion, apprising moderators of
reports or actions taken. Administrators may amend or rescind reports or actions taken. Administrators may amend or rescind
actions, including those taken by members of the moderation team actions, including those taken by members of the moderator team
*after* they have consulted with that team. *after* they have consulted with that team.
For a working group, chairs are by default the administrators. For a working group, chairs are by default the administrators.
They may delegate this responsibility in the same vein as They may delegate this responsibility in the same vein as
Section 6.4 of [RFC2418], but they must always accept, Section 6.4 of [RFC2418], but they must always accept,
acknowledge, and keep track of complaints of disruptive behavior. acknowledge, and keep track of complaints of disruptive behavior.
Forum administrators should perform moderation in a way that Forum administrators should perform moderation in a way that
obviates the need for moderator team involvement. obviates the need for moderator team involvement.
* *Moderators* are responsible for establishing procedures to * *Moderators* are responsible for establishing procedures to
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A suspension of participation privileges imposed prior to this A suspension of participation privileges imposed prior to this
process shall be reconsidered only in accordance with the processes process shall be reconsidered only in accordance with the processes
in place at the time of the suspension, even if the corresponding RFC in place at the time of the suspension, even if the corresponding RFC
has been formally obsoleted. has been formally obsoleted.
5. Relationship to Other IETF Functions 5. Relationship to Other IETF Functions
5.1. Relation to the Ombudsteam 5.1. Relation to the Ombudsteam
Administrators and moderators shall complement the efforts of the Administrators and moderators shall complement the efforts of the
IETF Ombudsteam [OT], whose focus on anti-harassment and operation IETF Ombudsteam [OT], whose focus on anti-harassment shall remain
shall remain unchanged. Administrators and moderators should always unchanged. Administrators and moderators should always report
report suspected harassment. They should nonetheless take any suspected harassment. They should nonetheless take any necessary
necessary actions regarding disruptive behavior. actions regarding disruptive behavior.
5.2. Relation to the IETF LLC 5.2. Relation to the IETF LLC
The Board of Directors of the IETF Administration LLC (IETF LLC) has The Board of Directors of the IETF Administration LLC (IETF LLC) has
fiduciary duty for the overall organization, which includes the duty fiduciary duty for the overall organization, which includes the duty
to protect the organization from serious legal risk that may arise to protect the organization from serious legal risk that may arise
from the behavior of IETF participants. from the behavior of IETF participants.
This protection may include the need for the IETF LLC to take This protection may include the need for the IETF LLC to take
emergency moderation actions. These emergency actions are expected emergency moderation actions. These emergency actions are expected
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is mitigated in eight ways: is mitigated in eight ways:
1. Section 4 requires the moderator team to first establish 1. Section 4 requires the moderator team to first establish
procedures that are intended to apply uniformly across the IETF. procedures that are intended to apply uniformly across the IETF.
2. Section 1.2 explicitly states that viewpoints outside the rough 2. Section 1.2 explicitly states that viewpoints outside the rough
consensus are not in and of themselves disruptive. consensus are not in and of themselves disruptive.
3. Section 4 provides transparency by requiring that moderation 3. Section 4 provides transparency by requiring that moderation
actions that restrict participation privileges be immediately actions that restrict participation privileges be immediately
reported to the affected person and to the moderation team, and reported to the affected person and to the moderator team, and
periodically reported to the IESG. periodically reported to the IESG.
4. Section 4 also requires that the community be informed in the 4. Section 4 also requires that the community be informed in the
case of suspensions lasting longer than 14 days. case of suspensions lasting longer than 14 days.
5. Section 4.1 lays out an appeals process in the case of 5. Section 4.1 lays out an appeals process in the case of
disagreements. disagreements.
6. If moderators find that the procedures themselves are leading to 6. If moderators find that the procedures themselves are leading to
inappropriate moderation, Section 4 allows them to update those inappropriate moderation, Section 4 allows them to update those
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are not set in stone. are not set in stone.
Moderation actions are intended to limit the likelihood of disruptive Moderation actions are intended to limit the likelihood of disruptive
behavior by a few IETF participants that may discourage participation behavior by a few IETF participants that may discourage participation
by other IETF participants. by other IETF participants.
7. IANA Considerations 7. IANA Considerations
This document has no IANA actions. This document has no IANA actions.
8. Acknowledgments 8. References
This memo is based on two individual Internet-Drafts, draft-ecahc-
moderation (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ecahc-moderation/)
authored by Lars Eggert, Alissa Cooper, Jari Arkko, Russ Housley, and
Brian E. Carpenter, and draft-lear-bcp83-replacement
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lear-bcp83-replacement/)
authored by Eliot Lear, Robert Wilton, Bron Gondwana, and John
R. Levine. Robert Sayre authored draft-sayre-modpod-excellent
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sayre-modpod-excellent/),
which also originated ideas reflected in this work. Pete Resnick
provided the basis for how the moderators interact with list/forum
leadership.
These individuals contributed additional improvements:
* Alissa Cooper
* Brian Carpenter
* Chris Box
* Colin Perkins
* David Schinazi
* Eric Rescorla
* Jay Daley
* Joel Halpern
* John Klensin
* John Scudder
* Martin Thomson
* Melinda Shore
* Michael Richardson
* Nick Hilliard
* Pete Resnick
* Rich Salz
* Robert Sayre
* Russ Housley
* Sean Turner
* Simon Josefsson
* Stephen Farrell
* Ted Lemon
* Tim Bray
N.B., acknowledgment should not be taken as endorsement by the
individuals named above.
9. References
9.1. Normative References 8.1. Normative References
[BCP10] Best Current Practice 10, [BCP10] Best Current Practice 10,
<https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/bcp10>. <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/bcp10>.
At the time of writing, this BCP comprises the following: At the time of writing, this BCP comprises the following:
Kucherawy, M., Ed., Hinden, R., Ed., and J. Livingood, Kucherawy, M., Ed., Hinden, R., Ed., and J. Livingood,
Ed., "IAB, IESG, IETF Trust, and IETF LLC Selection, Ed., "IAB, IESG, IETF Trust, and IETF LLC Selection,
Confirmation, and Recall Process: Operation of the IETF Confirmation, and Recall Process: Operation of the IETF
Nominating and Recall Committees", BCP 10, RFC 8713, Nominating and Recall Committees", BCP 10, RFC 8713,
DOI 10.17487/RFC8713, February 2020, DOI 10.17487/RFC8713, February 2020,
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[RFC7776] Resnick, P. and A. Farrel, "IETF Anti-Harassment [RFC7776] Resnick, P. and A. Farrel, "IETF Anti-Harassment
Procedures", BCP 25, RFC 7776, DOI 10.17487/RFC7776, March Procedures", BCP 25, RFC 7776, DOI 10.17487/RFC7776, March
2016, <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7776>. 2016, <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7776>.
[RFC8711] Haberman, B., Hall, J., and J. Livingood, "Structure of [RFC8711] Haberman, B., Hall, J., and J. Livingood, "Structure of
the IETF Administrative Support Activity, Version 2.0", the IETF Administrative Support Activity, Version 2.0",
BCP 101, RFC 8711, DOI 10.17487/RFC8711, February 2020, BCP 101, RFC 8711, DOI 10.17487/RFC8711, February 2020,
<https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8711>. <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8711>.
9.2. Informative References 8.2. Informative References
[AHP] IESG, "IETF Anti-Harassment Policy", 3 November 2013, [AHP] IESG, "IETF Anti-Harassment Policy", 3 November 2013,
<https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/anti- <https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/anti-
harassment-policy/>. harassment-policy/>.
[DP] IESG, "IESG Statement on Disruptive Posting", 17 February [DP] IESG, "IESG Statement on Disruptive Posting", 17 February
2006, <https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/ 2006, <https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/
disruptive-posting/>. disruptive-posting/>.
[IESG-SPAM] [IESG-SPAM]
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IESG statement [DP] clarifies that the IESG tasks list administrators IESG statement [DP] clarifies that the IESG tasks list administrators
with moderation. And the IETF list for general discussions has, with moderation. And the IETF list for general discussions has,
mostly for historic reasons, a team of moderators that are not list mostly for historic reasons, a team of moderators that are not list
administrators and operate by a different set of processes [RFC9245]. administrators and operate by a different set of processes [RFC9245].
Note that the term "moderation" can refer both to _preemptive_ Note that the term "moderation" can refer both to _preemptive_
moderation, where administrators review attempted participation moderation, where administrators review attempted participation
before it occurs (such as reviewing messages to a mailing list), and before it occurs (such as reviewing messages to a mailing list), and
_reactive_ moderation, where administrators intervene after _reactive_ moderation, where administrators intervene after
disruptive participation has occurred. Historically, the IETF has disruptive participation has occurred. Historically, the IETF has
mainly practiced reactive moderation, with a spectrum from gentle mainly practiced reactive moderation, employing actions ranging from
reminders on- and off-list, all the way to suspension of posting gentle reminders on- and off-list, all the way to suspension of
rights and other ways of participating or communicating. It is up to posting rights and other ways of participating or communicating. It
the moderators and administrators to decide which mix of preemptive is up to the moderators and administrators to decide which mix of
and reactive moderation to employ as part of their procedures. preemptive and reactive moderation to employ as part of their
procedures.
In addition, [RFC3683] defines a process for revoking an individual's In addition, [RFC3683] defines a process for revoking an individual's
posting rights to IETF mailing lists following a community Last Call posting rights to IETF mailing lists following a community Last Call
of a "posting rights" action (PR-action) proposed by the IESG, often of a "posting rights" action (PR-action) proposed by the IESG, often
in response to complaints from the community. in response to complaints from the community.
Experience and community input suggests that an evolution of the Experience and community input suggests that an evolution of the
existing processes is necessary. existing processes is necessary.
A.2. Problems with the Previous Approach A.2. Problems with the Previous Approach
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* For a given mailing list, participants may not feel comfortable * For a given mailing list, participants may not feel comfortable
reporting disruptive behavior to a chair or list administrator, reporting disruptive behavior to a chair or list administrator,
for various reasons. For mailing lists not associated with for various reasons. For mailing lists not associated with
working groups, list administrators are not even publicly working groups, list administrators are not even publicly
identified -- they can only be contacted through an anonymous identified -- they can only be contacted through an anonymous
alias address. This exacerbates the problem, because participants alias address. This exacerbates the problem, because participants
may not be comfortable reporting disruptive behavior to an may not be comfortable reporting disruptive behavior to an
anonymous party. anonymous party.
* The IETF offers participation not only through in-person meetings * Moderation processes have been defined for only two channels of
and mailing lists, which are the two channels of participation for participation in the IETF: in-person meetings and mailing lists.
which moderation processes are currently defined. IETF business However, IETF business now happens in a number of fora (e.g., chat
also happens in chat groups, remote meeting participation systems, groups, remote meeting participation systems, virtual meetings,
virtual meetings, wikis, GitHub repositories, and more. How wikis, and GitHub repositories). Procedures for moderating
disruptive behavior is moderated in these fora is currently disruptive behavior in these fora are currently undefined.
undefined.
Appendix B. Non-Normative Examples of Disruptive Behavior Appendix B. Non-Normative Examples of Disruptive Behavior
The list below describes some types of disruptive behavior, but it is The list below describes some types of disruptive behavior, but it is
non-exhaustive. non-exhaustive.
* Discussion of subjects unrelated to a forum's charter or scope; * Discussion of subjects unrelated to a forum's charter or scope;
* Uncivil commentary, regardless of the general subject; * Uncivil commentary, regardless of the general subject;
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* "Sealioning", where a participant makes incessant requests for * "Sealioning", where a participant makes incessant requests for
evidence or data, even while remaining superficially polite. evidence or data, even while remaining superficially polite.
These items are examples. Moderators and administrators may take These items are examples. Moderators and administrators may take
moderation actions for many other cases. moderation actions for many other cases.
The moderator team's task consists of subjective judgment calls. The moderator team's task consists of subjective judgment calls.
Behaviors not listed here might require moderation, and it is not Behaviors not listed here might require moderation, and it is not
possible to write a complete list of all such behaviors. possible to write a complete list of all such behaviors.
Acknowledgments
This memo is based on two individual Internet-Drafts, draft-ecahc-
moderation (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ecahc-moderation/)
authored by Lars Eggert, Alissa Cooper, Jari Arkko, Russ Housley, and
Brian E. Carpenter, and draft-lear-bcp83-replacement
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lear-bcp83-replacement/)
authored by Eliot Lear, Robert Wilton, Bron Gondwana, and John
R. Levine. Robert Sayre authored draft-sayre-modpod-excellent
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sayre-modpod-excellent/),
which also originated ideas reflected in this work. Pete Resnick
provided the basis for how the moderators interact with list/forum
leadership.
These individuals contributed additional improvements:
* Alissa Cooper
* Brian Carpenter
* Chris Box
* Colin Perkins
* David Schinazi
* Deb Cooley
* Dhruv Dhody
* Eric Rescorla
* Éric Vyncke
* Erik Kline
* Harald Alvestrand
* Jay Daley
* Joel Halpern
* John Klensin
* John Scudder
* Lisa Dusseault
* Martin Thomson
* Melinda Shore
* Michael Richardson
* Mike Bishop
* Mohamed Boucadair
* Murray Kucherawy
* Nick Hilliard
* Orie Steele
* Paul Hoffman
* Paul Wouters
* Pete Resnick
* Rich Salz
* Robert Sayre
* Robert Sparks
* Roman Danyliw
* Russ Housley
* Sean Turner
* Simon Josefsson
* Stephen Farrell
* Ted Lemon
* Tim Bray
N.B., acknowledgment should not be taken as endorsement by the
individuals named above.
Authors' Addresses Authors' Addresses
Lars Eggert (editor) Lars Eggert (editor)
Mozilla Mozilla
Stenbergintie 12 B Stenbergintie 12 B
FI-02700 Kauniainen FI-02700 Kauniainen
Finland Finland
Email: lars@eggert.org Email: lars@eggert.org
URI: https://eggert.org/ URI: https://eggert.org/
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